Same old question, new thread. Sustainable Alternative to Cornish Cross?

So, I have a whole lot going on chicken-wise these days but to keep this thread simple I'll point to the title. I'm already raising Jersey Giants, Orpingtons, Barred Rock, etc... But is there maybe even a new alternative to meat birds without the health issues? Slower growth is fine, but can we get a happy middle between heritage breeds and these "racecar" chickens (Cornish Cross) ?

Let me know what you guys think, hoping for something that makes sense to continue hatching and raising not just a one-off from the hatchery.

Oddyseous said:

Let me know what you guys think, hoping for something that makes sense to continue hatching and raising not just a one-off from the hatchery.

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I started with Jersey Giants, thinking they were the largest breed and I would get a lot of meat. However, at 5 months old they were only 5lbs and I found out they keep growing after one year to reach the stated mature weight of 10lbs.

In comparison, I just bred a Breese/Cornish X cross and have a rooster that weighs 12lbs at 5 months old. This is the way to go if you are breeding for meat as an alternative to fast growing Jumbo Cornish X. My Breese/Cornish X cross act like regular chicken and don't have the obesity and health problems associated with Jumbo Cornish X.

The 2 Jumbo Cornish X hens that I used to get my Breese cross, eventually blew out their guts and died. However, I started collecting their eggs early and managed to get 2 roosters and 9 hens from the hatch. These are my treasured breeders that I am currently studying.

This breeding group of chickens have different color legs, some are white, green, yellow or blue. I am leaning more towards the white color legs, since my biggest 12lbs rooster has white legs. I'll call his line Pearl White Broilers and his 8lbs brother's line Yellow White Broilers, since he has yellow legs.

I would cross a Jumbo Cornish X with a breed that matures early, like New Hamsters, White Plymouth Rocks, or Breese. Another alternative is to breed Red Rangers or Big Red Broilers. They are good egg layers and mature fast. The customer comments on Mcmurray say the off springs of the Big Red Broilers were decent.

If you use Mcmurray Hatchery for your stock, don't use their slow growing Jumbo Cornish Roaster for breeding, its better to get the dinosaur blood line from their fast growing Jumbo Cornish X line.

Dinosaur egg.....

Yeah Jersey Giants take about 2 years to fully grow, which is why they're so healthy and hard at such a huge size. The first year is just skeleton growth, second year is weight. My Jersey Giant rooster seems like he'd easily be the max weight of 15 lbs although I haven't weighed him. I'll let you know should I weigh him at some point.

I find it interesting you got cornish cross and were actually able to get some eggs to cross breed. Although I gotta be honest personally it does bother me to eat chicken with genetic defects, even just from selective breeding, like the cornish x. Which is why I'm asking about this I suppose. I consider anything that can't live long enough to produce more off-spring as a normal thing to be quite the genetic defect.

I'd love to hear more about your chicken experiment and progress you make while I consider my own options though. (Please keep me updated!)

Thanks for the input you at least gave me a lot to think about. I've looked at the rangers and red broilers and I just don't like how much weight I'm missing from what I've read.

Same old answer; not really.

Your best meat bird is pretty much always going to be a crossbred. I've had good results with a fast-maturing White Leghorn or California White rooster over "dual purpose" hens, but you lose that fast growth and breastiness in the next generation - F2s are always, always inconsistent. It's a simple fact of crossbreeding. The cross I mentioned is worth the trouble of butchering them out between 12 and 16 weeks in that you'll get something besides thighs. I flat refuse to raise a meat bird for longer than that, and I honestly resent having to feed them as long as 16 weeks - that's a LOT of feed!!

And, everyone who bothers to do the math learns that it is way, WAY cheaper to buy CX chicks when you want them rather than maintain a breeding flock all year - and especially a breeding flock of large, heavy birds who eat a lot and tend not to lay well - for the relatively few chicks you are going to raise. The big producers manage it by the magic of "economics of scale" and a constant rotation of their breeders into pot pie.

And speaking of math and going back to the feed thing I mentioned - and my time, raising and butchering. And meat-to bone ratio. And waste per bird. And heat for the brooder (CX chicks come off heat MUCH faster). And having my meat coop space taken up for twice as long - it just doesn't add up.
Listen, it takes me as much time to butcher some scrawny thing as it does a fat roaster. The less efficient birds have a higher percentage of feathers, bone and innards to dispose of than the meaties, and I have to butcher more of them to get the same amount of meat, so I end up with as much as 3x the mess to dispose of. CX I can start to butcher at 6 weeks, or take them to 8 for big birds, so my meat bird space has, tops, an 8 week turnover time. Less efficient birds will be filling that coop for twice as long, so even if I can fit half again as many of them in the space (say, the coop holds 10 CX, but 15 NotCX) over a 16 week period I can raise 20 6# CX versus 15 3.5# NotCX. That's 120# vs 52.5# for the same amount of time, coop space, cleaning, bedding, butchering. The CX will eat an average of 1.25 lbs a week, each, and the NotCX will only eat 1, but the CX are gone in 8 and the NotCX are on my feed bill for 16, so that's 10lbs to raise a CX and 16lbs to raise a smaller bird.
It just doesn't add up.
And then to add maintaining a breeding flock on top of that? And you can't even say "Well, they'd also be my laying flock" because they will lay less eggs for more food and of course you're not getting any egg you want to hatch a chick from. And if you want them to raise their own chicks, it's even worse because then that hen isn't laying anything for at least 6 weeks, plus the 2 weeks worth of eggs you want her sitting on, so that's 8 weeks of eggs lost per batch of chicks.

I don't know about you, but there's other stuff I'd rather waste time and money on.

RiverOtter said:

And then to add maintaining a breeding flock on top of that? And you can't even say "Well, they'd also be my laying flock" because they will lay less eggs for more food and of course you're not getting any egg you want to hatch a chick from.

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My Breese/Cornish x cross hens are decent egg layers and some of them hit 9lbs at 5 months old which beats other heritage breeds. Furthermore, when I drop a feeder into their pen, they don't keep eating, they stop after they get their fill. I take out the feeder after they are done eating. They can live on this one time ration and this diet help prevent excess fat to develop in their ovaries. One rooster to 3 hens can kick out 14 fertile eggs a week, so maintaining breeders for meat is not a big issue.

Jersey Giants are extremely good egg layers, it's something I've been enjoying. About 240/year. Also I'm constructing my first chicken tractor and working on moving all my large breeds to chicken tractors which should (according to Joel Salatin) cut out 80% of my feed costs, which I'm also going to be growing and making myself soon(the feed/ration), to cut every on-going cost out. So 80% pasture, 20% home-grown feed.

I guess what I'm going to do is start experimenting with my own cross breeds until I get one that really works best for sustainability and meat.

On-top of that I'm hatching chicks out myself and currently running a 75% hatch-rate. Hoping to improve to 80%+

I'm not just looking for good meat breeds, I'm starting my own chicken hatchery. But in the process I'm also hoping down the road to become my own certified processor allowing me to sell directly to the public and local grocery stores/restaurants.

But as of today, I'm after a chicken breed that is sustainable, healthy and can live a productive happy life, after all, I am what I eat.

So I guess that's the real answer here isn't it? Since I'm unsatisfied with the current breeds of chickens available to the public I need to design my own.

At least I always love a good challenge.

RiverOtter said:

Same old answer; not really.

Your best meat bird is pretty much always going to be a crossbred. I've had good results with a fast-maturing White Leghorn or California White rooster over "dual purpose" hens, but you lose that fast growth and breastiness in the next generation - F2s are always, always inconsistent. It's a simple fact of crossbreeding. The cross I mentioned is worth the trouble of butchering them out between 12 and 16 weeks in that you'll get something besides thighs. I flat refuse to raise a meat bird for longer than that, and I honestly resent having to feed them as long as 16 weeks - that's a LOT of feed!!

Click to expand...

Have you tried this cross the other way, with Leghorn hens and a dual purpose rooster? I wonder if it would produce similar results with the added bonus of a lot more eggs from the breeder flock.

Check this out https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/my-attempt-at-a-dual-purpose-heritage-flock.1489689/

Oddyseous said:

So, I have a whole lot going on chicken-wise these days but to keep this thread simple I'll point to the title. I'm already raising Jersey Giants, Orpingtons, Barred Rock, etc... But is there maybe even a new alternative to meat birds without the health issues? Slower growth is fine, but can we get a happy middle between heritage breeds and these "racecar" chickens (Cornish Cross) ?

Click to expand...

You could try copying what the original Cornish Cross were. Choose a hen breed that lays well, and grows quickly at a young age (New Hampshire, any color of Plymouth Rock, etc.) Cross them with a male that brings another trait you want (like purebred Cornish who have big breasts, but tend to grow slowly and lay few eggs.)

To make that sustainable, you end up keeping a flock of each pure breed, and each year you cross roosters of the one with hens of the other to get your meat birds. Of course, if you want to sell chicks, you have the option of selling the purebreds as well as the hybrids.

NatJ said:

To make that sustainable, you end up keeping a flock of each pure breed, and each year you cross roosters of the one with hens of the other to get your meat birds. Of course, if you want to sell chicks, you have the option of selling the purebreds as well as the hybrids.

Click to expand...

I like this idea. It is similar to what I am doing with the NHs and Delawares. The cross makes a nice, meaty dual purpose sex link. Eat the boys and sell the girls.